Rome fell.//I know. I was there.

[chicafrom3]

I CAN'T EVEN.

WHAT?

WELL THEN.

BRB, never sleeping again.

My thoughts are a DISORGANIZED JUMBLE but I'll try my best here.

♦ FIRST OF ALL because it's first on my thoughts: Amy's Schrodinger's pregnancy. The way the scanner kept flipping between positive and negative. "You will bring the Silence." Connected? I THINK SO. :|

♦ I don't buy that River and the Doctor are meeting in precise reverse chronological order. As a general rule, sure, yeah, they are mostly coming at the relationship from opposite ends. Strictly speaking we-meet-linearly-just-in-reverse? No. I don't buy it. River, I am sure you will encounter a later-timeline Doctor occasionally even after this happens in your personal timeline.
♦ ♦ Wow, talking about time-travel gets complicated sometimes. We need better tenses in English.
♦ ♦ ♦ It also just doesn't hold up with what we've seen before, has it? Syncing diaries doesn't make sense if they're meeting precisely back-to-front.

♦ Canton Everett Delaware III ♥♥♥
♦ ♦ Just saying. "This person you want to marry... black?" "Yes." "I'm a little more liberal than they..." "He is." Oh, Canton. I wish we'd gotten to see his guy, but MAYBE THEY WILL TURN UP TOGETHER IN A FUTURE EPISODE OR SOMETHING IDK TIME TRAVEL AND SHIT YOU GUYS.
♦ ♦ ♦ No, really, the Doctor still hasn't found out about his death/the envelopes/why they were all there to begin with, and eventually he's going to have to. And then we can see Canton again!
♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ It's Mark Sheppard, okay, we can't give him up that easily. ... all right, this is getting ridiculous I'll stop this section now.

♦ Amy/Rory are MY OTP for this era. His stupid face and she can always hear him and ohhh my heart.

♦ I like the clarification on Rory's memories of The Lone Centurion. That was well handled.

♦ AMY
♦ ♦ Amy trapped in the children's home was one of the most TERRIFYING THINGS EVER.

♦ River is BADASS you guys she's awesome I just can't ♥♥♥ And then she freaking BROKE MY HEART at the end even though I still can't buy that she'll never see a later-timeline Doctor who likes kissing her again IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
♦ ♦ On the other hand, "Open all the doors to the swimming pool!"

♦ River and Rory are still ♥ and so are Amy and Canton as a team and OH I LOVE TEAM TARDISES SO MUCH ♥♥♥

♦ LITTLE GIRL TIME LORD
♦ ♦ No really, LITTLE GIRL TIME LORD WTFFFFFF
♦ ♦ ♦ I CAN'T EVEN

♦ There are far too many unresolved plot threads for this to be a real conclusion. I expect story arc ahead for the season! *excited*

Okay, stepping away from plot/characterization for a moment...

♠ These episodes have been so pretty. They really made the most of shooting on location.

♠ I really really want to buy the cinematographer a drink. The lighting this two-parter was PERFECT and really added to the creepiness.
♠ ♠ Hey, Doctor Who lighting team, if you need another gaffer I will do whatever it takes to get to Cardiff and work for you. I have no experience at all in TV or film, but I will learn fast in order to work on your lights. PLS?

In conclusion, NEVER SLEEPING AGAIN.

Next week: PIRATES!

Comments

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

Do your worst!

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

Would you like me to complete destroy the last of your sanity in a series of posts/IM's?

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

THAT WAS INTERESTING TIMING. *points upthread* Go ahead, make my day. :D

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

Do you have S5 readily available?

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

Indeed!

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

Fire up The Eleventh Hour, about the 1 hour mark. After a brief conversation at the console, Amy will look up at the ceiling. Watch her face.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

!!!

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

You know what Amy saw.

Go to the beginning of TEH when 11 is hanging out the Tardis. He looked shocked at something, then shakes his head and looks confused.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

...that one I don't see, really. Just the normal hanging-out-of-an-out-of-control-TARDIS-while-trying-desperately-to-get-back-in shakiness.

So Amy, yes, 11, I don't see it.

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

That's okay, that scene is so badly edited and full of CGI errors that it's entirely possible that was genuine confusion from Matt.


Go to The Beast Below, just after Amy/11 have the conversation about how 11 "only interferes if children are crying". Amy turns round and a creepy black figure walks in front of the camera. The crack music plays along with the Silent growl noise.


Next, go to The Lodger, around 14 mins and 21 mins, the two scenes where Amy nearly gets flung into the vortex. Watch her reactions carefully in the one after the football scene. Specifically after she blinks.

Then go to The Big Bang, the scene with Amy on the floor as she explains 11 left her a message. The weird stone coffin things on the right wall... the black shapes behind them move.

There's more, lots more but those are the easiest to find.

Have I scared you yet Chica? :P

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

And another one.

At the end of Vampires of Venice, as the shot zooms in on the Tardis locks, you can distinctly hear the Silence growl.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

The Lodger one is the most blatant (and it is really blatant, omg) but I can see them all!

Actually less scared than jealous of Moff's brain. How does he plan this far ahead??

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I think the late-RTD era. The Library was the mid-season 4 cliff-hanger and I believe Moffat knew by then he was the next showrunner.

In Forest of the Dead, just after 10 clicks his fingers to open the Tardis doors and begins to walk in... there is a distinctly Silent noise. It's faint but there.

In End of Time, in the church scene between Wilf and the unnamed Time Lady, there is a strange shape that is similar to the black figures in TBB.

Christmas Carol, when Abigal sings to 'unlock the clouds' you can see a strange figure observing her and Kazran (sp?).

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

OH!

There's also the weirdness in the TPO with the Tardis doors that the phone vanishes. However I still think that's a continuity mistake as someone was fired over the number of epic fucks ups early in S5.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

See, now I'm having LOST-fandom flashbacks. How do we tell the difference between clues and accidents?

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

:D I thought of LOST too!

Well someone was fired from DW (I want to say the scene continuity guy) around the airing of S5E5 and Moffat wrote a disparaging comment on Twitter which he later removed.

It's widely held that the 11-dangling-from-the-Tardis scene that made it into the episode was the wrong one (a near finished draft shoot). The CGI is terrible and plain wrong in places.

In the first half of S5 there's a vast number of fuck ups with extras walking past twice, scenes out of flow (check Matt pulling the glowing Tardis key from his pocket... it happens twice). The CGI model from the RTD era was used in the scene where River blows herself out the airlock, which is incredibly noticeable in High Definition due to it being an SD render.

I think where the 4th wall is broken and you can see a definite fuck up then it's an accident. Where it's a subtle nearly unnoticeable moment then it's intention.

I AM A NERD! --actually not really, the mistakes are just so astoundingly obvious in HD.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

Well, but then there's also stuff like Rory's hospital badge having the wrong year on it in TEH -- I know a lot of people built theories around that and assumed it was an indication that Leadworth was somehow temporally screwed-up, but then Moff came out and said LOL, no, it was a mistake by the prop department. Sometimes it is both subtle and accidental!

But the CGI stuff had some pretty blatant mistakes in S5. XD

(check Matt pulling the glowing Tardis key from his pocket... it happens twice)

Would you believe this is the only one that consistently bothers me on rewatches? YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THAT, DOCTOR.

[diamondrocker.livejournal.com]

AGREED.

On, um... everything. [my brain is too tired to even coherently comment on someone else' comments right now. fail.]

BUT I TOTALLY SHIP EVERYONE/EVERYONE AND EVERYONE/EVERYONE IS MY OTP [FOR THIS ERA]. Also, I too don't think that River/Eleven's relationship is really just "back to front". THEY MEET OUT OF ORDER, DAMMIT. AS IN, IT'S OUT OF ORDER FOR BOTH OF THEM. That's the only way it makes any damn sense (hahahaha whut is that thought process????)

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

I MEAN

WHEN RIVER MET TEN SHE ASSUMED THAT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS EARLY DAYS FOR HIM THEY'D STILL DONE X, Y, Z, and she was shocked to find out that wasn't the case. If they were really doing exactly back to front she'd be like "Lol, I know exactly where in your timeline you are because last time I met you you barely knew me so this time you must not know me at all!" and so on.

So "You've never kissed me before? That must mean I'll never kiss you again!" makes no sense.

Maybe she just got all caught up in sentiment and once she calms down a bit she'll realize she was being silly and obviously she'll kiss him again?



EVERYONE/EVERYONE IS THE BEST OTP. ♥♥♥

[petrichor-fizz.livejournal.com]

AGH AGH WHAT. IS. HAPPENING

I watched it with my housemate and we had to go and smoke and try to make sense of it, we think the Silence had Amy for a really really long time somehow ("many many days"), enough time for her to give birth to the child and have it be about seven or so (or however old that girl was), but she doesn't remember any of this because she was around the Silence the whole time, but we don't know how it all fits together quite, and also we're really confused as to why the Silence ordered her to tell the Doctor "the thing you must not tell him", which turned out to be the pregnancy (we thought it was going to be the thing about his future death obvs) - so why did the Silence want him to know that? SO CONFUSING. Anyway this is crazy exciting I love it.

I hope the Moff brings back Donna briefly and reunites her with the stammering guy from the library. I want closure on that.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

IT IS ALL SO CONFUSING

MOFF WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

Someday this will all make sense and we will look back and go "It's all so sensible now! How could we have ever been conf...No, wait, I remember, it really was that confusing."

I hope the Moff brings back Donna briefly and reunites her with the stammering guy from the library. I want closure on that.

I'd be up for that! You listening, Moff??

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

Oooh yeah!

What about the scene with the weird eyepatch woman behind the hatch.

Hatch. There had better be a sexy Scotsman back there.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

"No, I think she's just dreaming." Is that what she said? WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

We should campaign for Henry Ian Cusick to have a guest spot as part of the Scottish Agenda.

[tallyen.livejournal.com]

*speculates*

1) Someone is observing Amy through time. That's already been done in who in Trial of a Time Lord via the Matrix. But that doesn't really explain "No, I think she's just dreaming."

2)The entire 2 parter was in Amy's head. That's not to say it didn't happen but that someone is now playing through her memories. But if someone has the tech to capture and playback memories, they would know Amy's adventures are real?

I AM CONFUSION!

About the little girl, she's clearly a/part Time Lord. Seemed completely unafraid of death and far wiser than a human child of her age.

How young can Time Lord's regenerate?

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

It's all so ... ARRGH, I don't know, CONFUSED. WTF is going on, Moff?

How young can Time Lord's regenerate?

Hmmm...

[geeky-ginger.livejournal.com]

Really...all I can say is...WHAT THE BALLS IS GOING ON?!

That was mind blowing....is Amy pregnant...is that little girl her child....is the child the silence and is she a timelord?

Amy/Rory is SO my OTP...and got me teary when she called him Stupid Face and he realized she'd been talking about him...god love you Moffat.

River...never change...never stop being kick ass!

And again..WHAT THE BALLS MAN?!

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

*FLAILS EVERYWHERE*

So many questions! So much squee!

[harbek.livejournal.com]

Diary syncing is my argument against meeting in exact opposite order. Cause otherwise the only time they had a shared experience would be while they were having it.

ALSO, JUST, I'M SECONDING YOUR ENTIRE POST.

PARTICULARLY THE CANTON BITS.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

*saves gif* CAAAAANTON ♥♥♥

I would suspect Moff hasn't really thought out the meeting-in-exact-opposite-order thing except evidently Moff thinks out EVERYTHING, so I'm at a loss. Maybe we're meant to think River doesn't really understand it and will therefore be surprised when later-timeline-Doctor turns up later down her own timeline? (Seriously, English language, handle time travel less awkwardly.) IDK, IDK, it doesn't make sense!

[harbek.livejournal.com]

Canton is so awesome.

I'm working on playing him (canton3) on brb_gallifrey, which is my favourite haunt these days. XD Just have to make icons and character-analyse him some!

Also, I/we decided he's basically dating Hud from Hair. Hot black guy of awesomeness from the right era and sort of right area.

Well, hey, maybe we'll find out more about it later. Also, I wonder how much about it he had thought out by the time he wrote River's first episode. (Which are so much better after these episodes.)

And maybe! It's possible. I mean, Alex Kingston isn't gonna get younger -- not remarkably so, anyway. And I wonder how old River was when she first met the Doctor. Cause if we get a really young River -- like, say, 18-ish... Would they.. get another actress? ...Would that even WORK?

Oh wait, I just remembered. In River's first episode, she's saying how the last time they met, they had a picnic and the Doctor cried -- apparently because he was knew what she was going to. That hasn't happened yet, has it? Isn't that likely to be nearer the end of his timeline with her as well?

Alos, if it's making sense, it's not Doctor Who!

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

Canton/Hud? ...I can see it.

...Now I want fic.

I vaguely expect that they'd get another actress to play bb!River... she did say last week that she was very young when she first met the Doctor, and while 'very young' can mean any number of things, it probably means young enough to make it awkward for Alex to play the role.

That would be hell on the casting agency, though. Imagine screening a few hundred actors and having to reject them all because they're either not visually close enough to Alex or they can't get the River swagger down right.

n River's first episode, she's saying how the last time they met, they had a picnic and the Doctor cried -- apparently because he was knew what she was going to. That hasn't happened yet, has it? Isn't that likely to be nearer the end of his timeline with her as well?

I really don't think it has! I'd expect him to put that off as long as possible. He's ... not very good at dealing with things he doesn't want to deal with, bless. :D

[harbek.livejournal.com]

I know, I want fic too. Maybe I'll get zoicite to do it, she's the only one I know who's written fic for both fandoms. (I'll probably write something small as my app sample thing for Canton.)

Seriously. It would be tricky. Or maybe they just won't show us. Or maybe they'll do something crazy, like, idk, River's body-swapped since then or something wild.

Bless. Also, I mean.. For him to cry and stuff.. It would be 1) something he'd put off for a long time, 2) at a point where he is connected enough with her to so openly cry about it in front of her. Probably not quite WAAAHH, but not hidden either.

[brandy-took.livejournal.com]

Agreed on everything! OMG!

It's also bothering me how they're acting like the Doctor and River are meeting in exactly reverse chronological order. That's completely unfeasible and ridiculous, and also makes their timeywimey!relationship less interesting. (Also English needs better tenses for sure.)

Canton is the best. If Mark Sheppard doesn't come back to this show I will be heart-broken. He so quickly became such a natural part of the Team TARDIS dynamic. They can't have left him behind for ever.

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

That's completely unfeasible and ridiculous, and also makes their timeywimey!relationship less interesting.

Yes, exactly! Thank you.

I mean. It's Mark Sheppard! And they have such a great setup to bring him back! And Moff's shown a willingness to bring guest stars back to tie plotlines up (see: the beginning of The Pandorica Opens)! And he works so well with this Team TARDIS! And IT'S MARK SHEPPARD!

I've decided that if they don't bring Canton back, THAT will be the one thing that I never forgive Moff for. Pls, Moff??

[brandy-took.livejournal.com]

I feel like all signs are pointing to yes, but I'm worried that's just because I love him so terribly and I've fooled myself. He's gonna be important in this arc. He has to be.


Right?

[chicafrom3.livejournal.com]

Preaching to the choir. I can't find a way to convince myself that he ISN'T. Because it's so obvious that he is. And there's so many hooks set up for his return. So he pretty much has to.

Right??